Discussion:
Dept of WTF
(too old to reply)
Ubiquitous
2007-11-28 12:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Here is a jaw-droppingly bizarre story from the BBC:

Thirty hooded gunmen sit at desks around a flip chart, pen
and paper in hand, listening to a lecture on the laws of
war by the international Red Cross.

All the Palestinian armed factions have signed up to the course,
though they are being taught in individual groups.

The head of Gaza operations for the Red Cross, Anthony Dalziel,
said the course was part of his organisation's worldwide effort
to teach international humanitarian law to all parties in armed
conflict.

Are the lessons catching on? It would appear not:

Abu Khaled is a local factional leader in Gaza. He told me his
fighters were told to take the Red Cross course to show the
world they are not as many see them.

"People think we are terrorists," he said. "But actually the
Islamic law we follow is far stricter than international law
in its rules of how to protect civilians and prisoners in war..."

I asked Abu Khaled about the rockets fired at Israel by his
faction and others, with the aim of killing ordinary Israelis.

"They are responsible," he insisted. "You can't expect the
victims to respect the laws alone. If they stop targeting our
civilians, they will see we are open to leaving theirs alone."


Then came a threat not entirely in keeping with the Red
Cross class going on around us.

"If they keep hurting our civilians they should know--today we
may be targeting their people in Sderot, tomorrow and in the
future, with new technology, our resistance will spread further.

"Our missiles will reach deeper inside Israel."

Is this a little like when you get a ticket and the charges are dropped if you
go to traffic school? The Beeb quotes Iyad Nasr, the Red Cross staffer
teaching the class: "They also have to realise they have responsibilities.
Legal ones. And if they don't keep them, they can be prosecuted under
international law. And that comes as quite a surprise to these guys, most of
whom have always viewed themselves as the victims."

Judging by Abu Khaled's comments, that message doesn't seem to have taken. And
as a practical matter, is Hamas really at risk of prosecution under
international law? YNetNews.com reports on a test case:

ZAKA, a volunteer organization committed to the recovery
and identification of human remains, in coordination with
the municipality of the rocket-battered city of Sderot,
may be on to a new method for combating Hamas: The
International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague.

In a lawsuit against Hamas politburo chief Khaled Mashaal,
ZAKA's directors Yehuda Meshi-Zahav and Dudi Zilbershlag
and Sderot Mayor Eli Moyal argue that Mashaal is responsible
for numerous murders and crimes against humanity and war
crimes.

In the suit Mashaal is blamed for the killing of 176 civilians
and the wounding of hundreds in Hamas-sponsored terror attacks
and suicide bombings that took place since 2002. Attacks on
military targets were not included in the lawsuit.

Will this effort succeed? That would be great, but color us skeptical.
YNetNews notes that "the Israeli government does not officially recognize the
Court in The Hague," and of course the U.S. doesn't either. As targets No. 1
and 2 of terrorism, you'd think Israel and the U.S. would have more of an
interest than anyone in strong international-law enforcement. But of course
their leaders rightly worry about being targeted for antiterrorism efforts.

International legal institutions too often end up protecting those who violate
the law flagrantly at the expense of governments that are trying to do their
duty to protect their own civilian populations. Is international humanitarian
law an experiment that has failed?
--
It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
for them, it's failing.
Ubiquitous
2008-03-22 16:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Dick Cheney
April 1991
"I think for us to get American military personnel involved in
a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a QUAGMIRE. Once we
got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power?
What kind of government would we have? Would it be a Sunni
government, a Shia government, a Kurdish government? Would it
be secular along the lines of the Ba'ath Party? Would it be
fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants
to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept the
responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. I think it makes no
sense at all."
Thanks for proving my point by attempting to use a partial quote from
over ten years before Iraq's liberation to describe it as a quagmire.
LTG (RET) RICARDO S. SANCHEZ.
Former commander US forces,Iraq.
12 OCTOBER 2007
"THERE HAS BEEN A GLARING, UNFORTUNATE, DISPLAY OF INCOMPETENT
STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP WITHIN OUR NATIONAL LEADERS. AS A JAPANESE
PROVERB SAYS, "ACTION WITHOUT VISION IS A NIGHTMARE." THERE IS NO
QUESTION THAT AMERICA IS LIVING A NIGHTMARE WITH NO END IN SIGHT"
"AFTER MORE THAN FOUR YEARS OF FIGHTING, AMERICA CONTINUES ITS
DESPERATE STRUGGLE IN IRAQ WITHOUT ANY CONCERTED EFFORT TO
DEVISE A STRATEGY THAT WILL ACHIEVE "VICTORY" IN THAT WAR TORN
COUNTRY OR IN THE GREATER CONFLICT AGAINST EXTREMISM. FROM A
CATASTROPHICALLY FLAWED, UNREALISTICALLY OPTIMISTIC WAR PLAN TO THE
ADMINISTRATION'S LATEST "SURGE" STRATEGY, THIS
ADMINISTRATION HAS FAILED TO EMPLOY AND SYNCHRONIZE ITS
POLITICAL, ECONOMIC AND MILITARY POWER. THE LATEST "REVISED
STRATEGY" IS A DESPERATE ATTEMPT BY AN ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS
NOT ACCEPTED THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC REALITIES OF THIS WAR
AND THEY HAVE DEFINITELY NOT COMMUNICATED THAT REALITY TO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE"
"THE BEST WE CAN DO WITH THIS FLAWED APPROACH IS STAVE OFF
DEFEAT. THE ADMINISTRATION, CONGRESS AND THE ENTIRE
INTERAGENCY, ESPECIALLY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE, MUST SHOULDER THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CATASTROPHIC FAILURE AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
MUST HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE."
"NEGLECT AND INCOMPETENCE AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
LEVEL, THAT IS THE PATH OUR POLITICAL LEADERS CHOSE"
Strange how you managed to exclude the part where he blames the liberal
media for undermining our liberation of Iraq...
--
It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
for them, it's failing.
FDR
2008-03-22 17:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Dick Cheney
April 1991
"I think for us to get American military personnel involved in
a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a QUAGMIRE. Once we
got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power?
What kind of government would we have? Would it be a Sunni
government, a Shia government, a Kurdish government? Would it
be secular along the lines of the Ba'ath Party? Would it be
fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants
to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept the
responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. I think it makes no
sense at all."
Thanks for proving my point by attempting to use a partial quote from
over ten years before Iraq's liberation to describe it as a quagmire.
LTG (RET) RICARDO S. SANCHEZ.
Former commander US forces,Iraq.
12 OCTOBER 2007
"THERE HAS BEEN A GLARING, UNFORTUNATE, DISPLAY OF INCOMPETENT
STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP WITHIN OUR NATIONAL LEADERS. AS A JAPANESE
PROVERB SAYS, "ACTION WITHOUT VISION IS A NIGHTMARE." THERE IS NO
QUESTION THAT AMERICA IS LIVING A NIGHTMARE WITH NO END IN SIGHT"
"AFTER MORE THAN FOUR YEARS OF FIGHTING, AMERICA CONTINUES ITS
DESPERATE STRUGGLE IN IRAQ WITHOUT ANY CONCERTED EFFORT TO
DEVISE A STRATEGY THAT WILL ACHIEVE "VICTORY" IN THAT WAR TORN
COUNTRY OR IN THE GREATER CONFLICT AGAINST EXTREMISM. FROM A
CATASTROPHICALLY FLAWED, UNREALISTICALLY OPTIMISTIC WAR PLAN TO THE
ADMINISTRATION'S LATEST "SURGE" STRATEGY, THIS
ADMINISTRATION HAS FAILED TO EMPLOY AND SYNCHRONIZE ITS
POLITICAL, ECONOMIC AND MILITARY POWER. THE LATEST "REVISED
STRATEGY" IS A DESPERATE ATTEMPT BY AN ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS
NOT ACCEPTED THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC REALITIES OF THIS WAR
AND THEY HAVE DEFINITELY NOT COMMUNICATED THAT REALITY TO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE"
"THE BEST WE CAN DO WITH THIS FLAWED APPROACH IS STAVE OFF
DEFEAT. THE ADMINISTRATION, CONGRESS AND THE ENTIRE
INTERAGENCY, ESPECIALLY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE, MUST SHOULDER THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CATASTROPHIC FAILURE AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
MUST HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE."
"NEGLECT AND INCOMPETENCE AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
LEVEL, THAT IS THE PATH OUR POLITICAL LEADERS CHOSE"
Strange how you managed to exclude the part where he blames the liberal
media for undermining our liberation of Iraq...
Strange that you would deflect the flip flopping of our vice president.
FDR
2008-03-22 17:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Dick Cheney
April 1991
"I think for us to get American military personnel involved in
a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a QUAGMIRE. Once we
got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power?
What kind of government would we have? Would it be a Sunni
government, a Shia government, a Kurdish government? Would it
be secular along the lines of the Ba'ath Party? Would it be
fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants
to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept the
responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. I think it makes no
sense at all."
Thanks for proving my point by attempting to use a partial quote from
over ten years before Iraq's liberation to describe it as a quagmire.
LTG (RET) RICARDO S. SANCHEZ.
Former commander US forces,Iraq.
12 OCTOBER 2007
"THERE HAS BEEN A GLARING, UNFORTUNATE, DISPLAY OF INCOMPETENT
STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP WITHIN OUR NATIONAL LEADERS. AS A JAPANESE
PROVERB SAYS, "ACTION WITHOUT VISION IS A NIGHTMARE." THERE IS NO
QUESTION THAT AMERICA IS LIVING A NIGHTMARE WITH NO END IN SIGHT"
"AFTER MORE THAN FOUR YEARS OF FIGHTING, AMERICA CONTINUES ITS
DESPERATE STRUGGLE IN IRAQ WITHOUT ANY CONCERTED EFFORT TO
DEVISE A STRATEGY THAT WILL ACHIEVE "VICTORY" IN THAT WAR TORN
COUNTRY OR IN THE GREATER CONFLICT AGAINST EXTREMISM. FROM A
CATASTROPHICALLY FLAWED, UNREALISTICALLY OPTIMISTIC WAR PLAN TO THE
ADMINISTRATION'S LATEST "SURGE" STRATEGY, THIS
ADMINISTRATION HAS FAILED TO EMPLOY AND SYNCHRONIZE ITS
POLITICAL, ECONOMIC AND MILITARY POWER. THE LATEST "REVISED
STRATEGY" IS A DESPERATE ATTEMPT BY AN ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS
NOT ACCEPTED THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC REALITIES OF THIS WAR
AND THEY HAVE DEFINITELY NOT COMMUNICATED THAT REALITY TO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE"
"THE BEST WE CAN DO WITH THIS FLAWED APPROACH IS STAVE OFF
DEFEAT. THE ADMINISTRATION, CONGRESS AND THE ENTIRE
INTERAGENCY, ESPECIALLY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE, MUST SHOULDER THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS CATASTROPHIC FAILURE AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
MUST HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE."
"NEGLECT AND INCOMPETENCE AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
LEVEL, THAT IS THE PATH OUR POLITICAL LEADERS CHOSE"
Strange how you managed to exclude the part where he blames the liberal
media for undermining our liberation of Iraq...
Oh, and strange that you needed to put the quote in all capital letters.
z
2008-03-22 20:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ubiquitous
Dick Cheney
April 1991
"I think for us to get American military personnel involved in
a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a QUAGMIRE. Once we
Thanks for proving my point by attempting to use a partial quote from
over ten years before Iraq's liberation to describe it as a quagmire.
ah,you are unfamiliar with the "future tense" wikipedia might be able
to explain it.

Loading...